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I was pretty good, to be frank with you, but against five guys…you know, it didn’t really faze me.

I’d say, “What happens to this guy while Cap fights the other four?

And he’d pull me out from under this pile, and he’d whale in to them. I knew the real ones, and the real ones were out for big money. I’d see politicians who were supposed to be on opposite sides of issues all together at one table. They became the cops and the crooks, and the crooks became the gangsters. GROTH: Were crooked politicians and gangsters looked on with disfavor?

GROTH: Now these fights in your neighborhood — these were serious, knock-down, drag-out fights. For all I know, the may still be on Suffolk Street. And in order for my mother not to be shocked they readjusted my clothes and they saw that nothing was rumpled and I looked very comfortable next to the apartment door, so when my mother would open the door it wouldn’t be that much of a shock. I think you can be looked up to out of fear just as much as you in look up to a man because of his ability or his promise. GROTH: Did you yourself get in a lot of fights when you were a kid? Adolf Hitler took all of Europe, and my generation had to confront Adolf Hitler. ROZ KIRBY: And your brother got into a lot of fights. GROTH: Do you feel that your immersion in this violent world as a kid shaped these themes in your drawing and moved you in that direction? GROTH: I mean, do you think it affected the way you drew and the way you... So I was drawing reality, and if you look through all my drawings. We used to hop from monument to monument chasing each other. If the other guy wants to fight and you knocked him out, you did your best for him. There was one time they knocked me out and laid me in front of my mother’s door.

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